Curse

Mountain Man · May 25, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by super dooper

Are you literally trying to 'solo' the missions, or are you bringing henchpeople? That's what they're there for. You're still playing by yourself.

Indeed. Post-sear is all but impossible without a team of either human or AI allies.

Aug · May 25, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

RPG != PvE

Not that I think the game lacks in PvE. "Invisible Walls" and "Mission Driven Storyline" do not have anything to do with the PvE or RPG classifications.

PvE means Player versus Environment. You are certainly fighting mobs over and over... sounds like PvE to me.

RPG = Roleplaying Game. How is a Mission Driven Storyline NOT considered roleplaying? I'd guess that the majority of CRPGs are Mission Driven, and that the storyline won't progress until you do X, Y, and Z. Morrowind and Elder Scrolls are about the only examples that AREN'T like that... yet they're not the only RPGs in existance. In fact, Fable (XBox RPG) is quite similar to GW from the PvE/RPG side, and was a very recent release, and highly acclaimed.

Sounds to me like you're disappointed that you can't explore in any old random direction. Exploration has nothing to do with RPG, and I wouldn't say there's much to it in the PvE side of the equation, either. If you want an online game world with lots to randomly explore, why not try EQ2?

GW is a unique cross between your standard single player CRPG with a linear, mission driven story line and an MMO. It provides lots of people the ability to participate with each other in the linear missions. If you don't like that... fine. Don't play. Try the more standard MMOs with a more Morrowind/Elder Scrolls approach that don't really require you to do ANY quests/missions, and give you 360 degree freedom of movement.

sama · May 25, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

the clear fact of the matter is, you do not have to pvp to enjoy pve. that is, if you don't count the 2 min "training" after graduating the academy. In fact, the only real, single link between pve and pvp is the sigil requirement for a guild hall -- an item that is a must for pvp guilds and cosmetic for pve guilds. It is quite possible to never step foot in a pvp area at all if that tickles your fancy.

However, you cannot escape pve if you're only interested in pvp. The runes, the weapon mods, and most importantly the skills are found in pve and thus require you to farm, farm, and grind respectively.

chalt2 · May 25, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sama

However, you cannot escape pve if you're only interested in pvp. The runes, the weapon mods, and most importantly the skills are found in pve and thus require you to farm, farm, and grind respectively.

Again the same argument and again the same narrow view of the entirity of the people that are playing it for any number of different reasons. Your statment implies that THE ONLY way for someone to be good, respectable, to have even thr remotest chance to be compeetive in PvP is to have all the runes, skills, weapons and everything else the game has to offer and if they don't then they'll not be able to even make a good show. Isn't it true that what you are saying is only in regards to HoH and NOT any GvG or basic PvP in any of the other arenas? Wouln't someone that might stop by and read your posts and the others like it maybe get the impression that being able to PvP with their lvl 10 war ind post ascalon was going to be a waste of time because they don't have all the uber gear, is THAT the short sighted message you are purveying?

Is it not possible that there MIGHT be somepeople that are JUST looking for a fun game to PLAY?

Is it not possible that there might be someone that is comming to this game for the first time and would like to try some PvPor even PvP only but would like to take it slow and learn before they jump into HoH?

Why is it always ALL or nothing ?

sama · May 25, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

narrow view, or a wider perspective than you can truly hope for?

Loviatar · May 25, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by sama

narrow view, or a wider perspective than you can truly hope for?

cant you simply play for the fun of it without being on the top of the ladder?

what is wrong with being on the 3rd or 5th page if you are having fun?

thorizdin · May 25, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

cant you simply play for the fun of it without being on the top of the ladder?

what is wrong with being on the 3rd or 5th page if you are having fun?

Because if having fun is subjective. For many people the challenge of getting to the top is the fun part.

stingite · May 25, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I think what I'll miss most from Everquest was "the raid target." Correct me if I'm wrong (and I hope I am), there is no event in Guild Wars where you and a few groups of your friends fight "a raid boss."

The raid boss was the ultimate PvE experience.

Gearing up was necessary to survive those "end game" PvE experiences.

It'd be nice to see some mega PvE stuff like that in later expansions.

Ninna · May 25, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

UnderWorld and Fissure of Woe is very challenging for PvE

BrandonIT · May 25, 2005, 10:14 PM // 22:14

It's both PvP and PvE.

And I love it.

Axehilt · May 25, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashock

Really? I never noticed that in the game descriptions anywhere. In fact, it sounded as if it were a PvE game with a nice PvP content. If I did, I would not have bought it.

As far as a PvE experience, c'mon now. An RPG with a clvl cap of 20 is a joke. Practically no character development after lvl 20 is not what people look forward to when they play a game of this type. Once people get over their initial excitement and get to lvl 20 for one or 2 characters (at most) this game will be dead, with no drastic changes to char development. You'll see.
As far as PvP... heh, this ain't Counterstrike. Conterstrike in a fantasy world setting? Yeh, sure. That's surely going to work well on a long term basis, the pace is just as fast and furious.....

Yes, really.

As someone who has designed games in the past, it's very apparent that GW was designed from the ground up for PVP. Mostly in terms of the skill system and how combat plays out. Enemy mobs act far more like an opposing team in PVP than the random ragtag mobs you meet in other MMORPGs - particularly because there's no Taunt skill (taunt in MMORPGs reduces the already low intellect of the mobs - forcing them to make even worse decisions in how they attack the human party.)

Naturally just because a game was designed from the ground up for PVP, that doesn't mean you can't add a very compelling PVE aspect on top of it - and I feel that's what GW managed to accomplish.

As for advancement? I actually love the fact that post-Ascension advancement is purely made through skill. For me I don't need some ficitious number in a database (ie character level) to tell me I'm cooler and more powerful. I enjoy beating hard scenarios purely through skill and teamwork, and I look forward to ever-harder dungeons being implemented by the GW team. My 'characters' in games like Gradius, Half-life 2, Metal Gear Solid, and Dawn of War didn't level up - those games were fun to beat simply because the gameplay was a blast!

Again, I enjoy those post-Ascension scenarios more because you cannot simply level up to make them easier to beat. You actually have to be skilled to win (sort of a "real world" character development if you will - it's your team's skill level vs. the mission).

In other forums I've openly stated that this style of gameplay (favoring the skilled) won't appeal to everyone. In fact, it's games that favor newbies and don't care about your player skill that are most popular (The Sims, Everquest, WoW, etc), because anyone can be successful in them regardless of their ability! No matter how good you actually are, the game tells you you're cool, you're powerful, etc. Naturally those styles of games will be far more popular than games where only the minority (the skilled) are told they are cool/powerful.

Zeru · May 25, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

cant you simply play for the fun of it without being on the top of the ladder?

what is wrong with being on the 3rd or 5th page if you are having fun?

Nothings wrong with being on the 3rd or 5th page if I'm having fun doing it. However, character setup (and to a larger extent team setup) is something that keeps me interested as well as simply having fun in tombs and gvg. If I know there are tools out there that I could be using if I put in 50+ more repetitive hours in order to make my character better overall, and that there are others who have already done so, that makes it less fun, especially when you go into battle knowing you are at a disadvantage simply because of time spent.

You can't classify pvp simply between the hardcore pvpers who have to have everything in order to be at the top, and the very casual pvpers who are content with the premade paladin. There definitely is a middle ground there who are affected negatively by the grind.

Christ67 · May 26, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

OK, let me put it this way. When you bought the game what was the expectation or belief of what the game was? Did you purchase the game looking at it as a primarily PvE or a Primarily PvP based game?

I apologize for the ranting and venting about single player being an impossibility, but when someone asked for clarification the examples were overtaken by my frustration and disappointment at the lack of options available. Didn't set out to bash the game or point out each percieved flaw. I wasn't trying to open "Pandora's Box" here! Just asking if we were playing a PvE or a PvP? This is only my fourth experience with "Online" gaming. I don't play any PvP games cause regardless of skills, macros, etc.... I will lose every time. I am on a dial-up (42.6 Kbps) in the sticks and yes that is my only option. PvP is useless to me the broadbands and DSLs will own me every time. I've only ever played Diablo, Diablo 2 LOD, and Knights online. Now Guild Wars. If this is only for the PvPers thanks but no thanks can't even come close to competing in that league. If this is for the PvE then as Picard said, "Make it so Number One!"

With that being said......When you bought the Guild Wars game were you led to believe it was a PvE or a PvP? My first sentence about my assumption that it was a PvE is where I am coming from. I am extremely pleased with the rich graphics and the customization options etc... my likes and dislikes aside, Not looking for sympathy or starting a bitch session or trying for the most flamed crown I am asking each person here;

When you bought the Guild Wars game were you led to believe it was a PvE or a PvP?

Did you purchase the game based on that expectation?

Did you find that the expectation and the product were what you expected?

I am asking the game designers is this a true PvE with a PvP option or is this a PvP masked and marketed as a PvE? (Basically Unreal Tournament with a tutorial to unlock special skills and items and attacks)

Thanks for your insights I'll look into the whole henchmen thing as soon as the Guild Wars page finishes loading (heck, I only clicked to open it 3 days ago it should be up anytime

)

Titus Deathbrynger · May 26, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I play PVE exclusively and probably will for the next few months. I do think there will be a point where all thats left is PVP (but even that could change with more content added).

So no I wouldnt say you have to do much of any PVP. For me it's one huge adventure.

Alex Weekes · May 26, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ67

I am asking the game designers is this a true PvE with a PvP option or is this a PvP masked and marketed as a PvE?

I'm not a designer (just the geek who gets to talk to all of you), but I think i can speak on their behalf. Put simply:

Guild Wars is both.

The game has a strong mission-based and quest-based storyline, with plenty of map zones to explore and beat stuff up in. In many Explorable Areas you can play solo, but the game is not really designed for true solo gameplay. The game is designed to be a multiplayer experience, however you can always choose to ignore the other human players and use NPC Henchmen instead; effectively allowing you to play with a solo experience.

Guild Wars also has a strong PvP component that many players enjoy.

You are not required to play PvP (except when you go through the Academy and may be placed in a brief PvP encounter) if you are not interested in it. Many players have noted above that they find the PvE in Guild Wars to be very enjoyable. It's worth noting that those who want to get the most out of PvP in Guild Wars need to complete the PvE side of the game, so in that regard in can be said that PvE comes first and PvP later as an option.

With regards your comments about the Hall of Heroes "spam" I need to point out that this is present to make sure that PvE players know when they can enter some special PvE maps available later in the game. These maps are unlocked by teams who are playing PvP in the HoH.

However, going back to the short answer: We feel that Guild Wars should be enjoyable for both PvE and PvP players alike. If you don't want to PvP, then simply ignore that part of the game.